Check out the transcript from the latest episode of AHRI’s new podcast, Let’s Take This Offline, where our host Tani Jacobi CPHR discusses strategies to overcome self-doubt and lead with confidence with author and executive coach Kemi Nevkaptil.
Listen to the episode below and read more about AHRI’s podcast here.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: This podcast is recorded on Wurundjeri land. I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land, and the land on which you are listening today. Welcome to season four of Let’s Take This Offline, a podcast from the Australian HR Institute that brings you closer to the minds helping to shape the future of HR. I’m Tani Jacobi, an AHRI-certified HR leader with over 20 years’ experience in the people and capability function, and I’m a proud AHRI member. Imposter syndrome is something most of us will experience at some point in our careers, particularly those stepping into bigger roles or navigating environments where they don’t fit the traditional mould. But what if those feelings of doubt weren’t something to hide or fix? What if they were actually a sign of growth and could even be used as a leadership advantage? Today’s guest is Kemi Nevkaptil, a globally recognised leadership coach, author and keynote speaker who has helped thousands of leaders embrace their voice, build presence and lead with purpose. Kemi will also be speaking at AHRI’s upcoming National Convention and Exhibition in August, which is taking place in Sydney this year. Kemi brings a powerful blend of professional insight and personal experience to the conversation, offering practical tools that help leaders overcome self doubt and cultivate lasting influence. If you’re ready to lead with more confidence, authenticity and impact, this conversation is packed with tools to help you get there. Kemi, welcome to the podcast.
Kemi Nekvapil: Such a delight to be here. Tani, thank you.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Our pleasure. And this topic is particularly close to my heart, personally, and I’ve got my notepad here. I’m sure I’ll be taking my own notes as much as our listeners will be. So I’m very grateful to have this chat with you today. Let’s get right into it. What’s something you wish more people generally understood about imposter syndrome?
Kemi Nekvapil: Such a good question, such a great jumping off point. I think what we miss is that if we don’t have some level of self doubt or some level of imposter syndrome, then we’re probably a sociopath, and none of us want to be that. So being able to sort of tap into that knowing actually I’m a human being, and these feelings are usual and normal, and as you said, especially when we’re about to expand into something new or different, or we’re stepping up in our roles, all of those fears and concerns are going to come up for everyone, and they can be used in a really powerful way within our leadership journey.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: So as you know, our listenership specifically are HR practitioners, and it’s quite likely a number of them have recently, or are perhaps soon, to step into those leadership roles, and in doing so, they may find themselves in a position where you know, perhaps they’re the youngest person in the room, perhaps they’re the only person of a particular gender, the only person of colour, or even just the least experienced leader in the room, which can amplify that self doubt. What are some of the forces that shape those feelings of being an imposter, and how can naming them help us reclaim some power?
Kemi Nekvapil: Well, I think there’s looking at, you know, just taking ownership of and understanding that we are all operating within certain systems and structures, and some of them benefit some of us, and some of them don’t benefit many of us. So let’s just go back and have a look at what the workplace was. The workplace was created for mainly men within the Western context. Now, my heritage is Nigerian, and the women were very much the matriarchs of the house and the field, you know. But within a Western culture, it is very much that the workplace where people left the house to go to work, was for men. So whenever a woman steps into that space, whenever we step into that space, there is a sense of, ‘I don’t feel I belong here,’ because actually, the space wasn’t created for us. Once we add any sense of intersectionality into that, as you said, as the only person of colour for me, as a black woman, I often find myself being the only one in the room. So I can have that sense of, ‘I wasn’t meant to be here.’ And there’s an ownership and a power that comes from that. The reason I feel this is because historically, I wasn’t meant to be here. I wasn’t welcome here. It’s not about me so much. It’s about the structures that I’m operating within, and I have always found that in the clients that I’ve worked with. And I do work mainly with women, but I work with a few good men, as I’d like to say, and men have their own fear and feeling of imposter syndrome too, and some of these systems and structures do not work for men either. And so it’s owning this is a structure that has me feeling like this. This is a place that I have to navigate. How can I use this to my advantage?
Tani Jacobi CPHR: And how do you see some sort of common concepts that come up around imposter syndrome, around perfectionism and people pleasing and bias. How do they play into the way HR leaders particularly may experience imposter syndrome?
Kemi Nekvapil: Well, this is the thing, it isn’t because we want to give an answer for everyone, that’s a blanket statement for everyone, and it never is, because we all come from completely different upbringings. We come from different environments. We have these internal narratives, and sometimes when I’m working with a client… So let’s just, let’s start with perfectionism, and then maybe we can move on to people pleasing. If I’m working with a client and they self identify as a perfectionist, and I’ll say to them, you know, what does the voice in your head say? And generally, if someone says, I don’t have a voice in my head, that was the voice in your head saying you don’t have a voice in your head. But if I say to them, what does that voice say to you? And maybe they’ll say to me, I have to get it right all the time. I cannot fail. And I may check in with them and say, is that your voice or is it somebody else’s voice? And sometimes that can be the biggest breakthrough for a client, because they realise that’s actually not me, that’s my Dad, that’s my Mum, that was my primary school teacher that said that sort of thing to me. Now some of the listeners may now be thinking, oh no, we’re going back to our parents and we’re blaming our parents. One thing we have to understand about leadership now emerging leaders, current leaders, is that we have to be able to tap into our humanity. It is the only way that we are going to sustainably lead, especially in a world where tech is moving faster than any human brain possibly could. So as leaders, we need to understand what are the areas where I will default to when I’m about to go into expansion and I’m scared, what are the things that I will tell myself, where I’m in a room and I am the only one. Once we can take ownership of who we are, then we are going to be able to lead sustainably in a humane way.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: It’s so powerful that leading with humanity. And I think often the discourse I hear is about leading others with a sense of humanity and thinking about their humanity, but there’s also thinking about our own humanity in that and that we are humans, not machines.
Kemi Nekvapil: Yeah, we are humans not machines. And then let’s have a look at people pleasing, what that can look like. So if you have a leader who identifies as a people pleaser, because maybe they found growing up that actually they were the moderator in the family, they just kept everything very nice and made sure that everyone was kind of okay. So they would please whoever they needed to please to keep the peace. I have worked with so many leaders who identify as people pleasers, and what they’re not getting in their leadership is the respect that they want. They know that everyone likes them, but they do not feel that people are showing up to them in a way where it’s collaborative, where they’re communicating, and they’ve realised that actually their people pleasing has worked for them in a particular chapter of their journey and their leadership style. But if they want to expand, people pleasing is now not necessarily going to serve them. It’s going to be a detriment to their leadership and the impact that they want to make.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Touching on a few nerves there, Kemi, I feel very seen. Can you talk to us a bit more about bias and the role it plays in how our leaders lead?
Kemi Nekvapil: I mean, I write about it in my book, Power. The most powerful thing about bias is owning that we have it. It is not powerful to think that we don’t have it. We have all come from communities and tribes and clans where we literally had to look at other people and understand, are these people safe? Do these people look like me? Are they a threat to my tribe? Are they not? Bias is encoded within us. And to be honest, as a black woman, if somebody says to me, I don’t have biases, I don’t trust them, I am much more likely to be in the conversation with someone that goes, you know, I realise that actually I do have a particular bias about that kind of person. And it doesn’t have to be someone that’s ethnically different. It can be someone that’s neurotypically different. It can be someone that has a disability or speaks with a particular accent or comes from a particular class or looks a particular way. We all generally, unless we have taught ourselves otherwise, will judge someone the moment we see them. The power and the leadership comes in. That’s what I just made up about that person. I wonder who they are, and there’ll be people listening. Here you have you’re in teams, you’re leading people, and there’ll be people that you have already made a decision about who they are, their capabilities, their capacities, what they can be trusted with. Let’s get curious, because maybe you’re completely wrong, and our bias is actually a vulnerable it’s vulnerable to own them, but it’s vulnerable to kind of break through them as well.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: And I imagine a lot of those, whether they’re conscious or unconscious, the biases and the beliefs that we have or the assumptions we make about people then also affect how we feel we can influence, or indeed, how we are influenced by others. And for many aspiring HR leaders or early HR leaders, I’m sure they’re in that space now where they’re trying to find that leadership voice. They’re trying to find their style, you know, they need to influence change decision making, but possibly the most sort of dominant or visible leadership models that they are aware of don’t actually reflect who they are. Can you talk to us a little bit about your take on influence and how it’s defined.
Kemi Nekvapil: Influence is such an interesting word, isn’t it, because it’s actually not a word that I gravitate towards. For me, that always leads to something deeper. For me, influence sits at a surface level, like how are those people perceiving me and how am I perceived? You know, what is my influence? And actually, I think our influence comes from who we are, and we’re probably top, you know, we’ll probably touch back on this, because I’m obsessed with leaders knowing their core values. And it is work that I did when I was facilitating the dare to lead work. I trained with Dr Brené Brown, and I facilitated that work for five years. I’ve just come to the end of facilitating that work. But what’s so interesting in facilitating that values work, and the values work I did even before that training, is that when a leader is really clear on what their core values are, it completely changes anything that’s surface level. So we can find ourselves in a situation. I’ve worked with many, many female leaders that work in mainly predominant male spaces, and I’ve worked with men of colour that work in mainly white spaces, so similarities, different genders, but different things that their intersectionalities, that they’re working with. And what is so interesting in those rooms is that they can very much be stuck in ‘I want people to like me. I need to be listened to. I want to have impact.’ But as soon as we look at what their core values are, once someone says to me, we do the work. And sometimes it takes quite a few sessions. It can take a few months, because you have to live into the values and work out, is that actually a value, or is that a rule that I’m putting on myself? But if a leader comes back to me and says, ‘Okay, I’ve cemented my core values, and they are integrity, joy and connection,’ how that leader shows up in that room is going to be about who they are being in that room. If they are in their values of integrity, connection and joy, it’s not about how they’ve influenced people. It’s about how they’ve connected with people by being a true expression of what matters to them.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: That is an incredibly powerful way to think about it. And I think about times when you’re in a situation and you’re trying to be a certain type. You’re almost putting on a level of performance, because you think I’ve got to act a certain way in this room, opposed to this is who I am, and it might manifest in different ways, in different conversations and contexts, but ultimately, anchor, yeah, yeah. One thing I think is really unique to HR and sort of, I guess, professions that are of service to a degree, to an organisation, is we don’t always necessarily have authority in those moments. That we might not be the final decision makers, but we still want to, need to be able to shape a direction and have a voice heard and contribute to the outcome. How do you think that your thinking of influences, who you are and how you’re being, how does that show up in that context where there’s a decision to be made and we want to influence it, but we maybe aren’t the final decision maker?
Kemi Nekvapil: Yeah, and, and you’re right. So many people find themselves in that position. And for me, it would be around, you know, if I was working with a one to one client on this. And this is the thing I know that so often we want this idea that we’re all the same as human beings. But as I said, we’re all so complex, you know? So for one particular client, I may then ask the question, if they came to me with that scenario, maybe the first question I would ask them is, ‘What is the most important thing about this outcome?’ Now it could be that they have said the most important thing is that I am the person that has the communication with certain team members about what’s happening around this change in this restructure. Okay, it may not be as important to them when it’s done, how it’s done, who’s in the room. They just want to make sure they have that conversation. So then I would be directing them. Okay? So then, if you were to be living into your values to make sure that you are that person, who would you pick to be connecting with? What does integrity feel like to you, and how would that look? And then together, we would work out how they could show up. They know that they can’t make the final decision, but they know what’s important to them about their contribution to that decision. And then, to be honest, tiny, as in most workplaces, or even for me as a business owner, there’s also the element of surrender. There’s also power in knowing this is where I can impact and contribute, and I don’t have control over here. So I’m going to leave that bit, and I’m going to have control and agency where and when I can,
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Yeah, which, if one of those core values is integrity, you know, that’s your mark of integrity. I’ve said the things that matter most to me, I’ve made the points that are important and I’ve done what I can.
Kemi Nekvapil: I’ve done what I can, yeah, and it’s so interesting with integrity as well, because there are so many values that any of us can claim as our core values. And I could ask 20 people, which I have done in rooms, you know, give me your definition of integrity, get 20 completely different answers, and none of them are right. It’s just that. Our values are what we feel are an expression of who we are in that season of our work and our life.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: And that is really important as well, that season of our work and life. Can you talk a bit more about that?
Kemi Nekvapil: Well, as I was sharing with you before we pressed the recorder, I’ve just become a flower farmer, along with my other work, which is fantastic, but we’re beings of nature. You know, we’re human beings. We’re of nature. We have seasons. My children have just left home. So what I have my capacity, my capabilities of what I can do with my work, and having this new project now is so different to when I was at home with my children, or even, you know, in the middle and I was kind of starting a fledgling business and having kids at school. And there is a kindness in owning the season, in saying right now for somebody else, for someone listening. It may be right now I am living with or I’m living with someone who has severe mental health challenges in this season of my life. I need to ask for support. I need to have conversations with my boss or with my team around what is going on for me, that’s what being a human is, because your boss or your team member has either been there or is in it or is going there. You know, this idea that the workplace has now become where we shut off everything about us that is human doesn’t serve any one now. Yes, do we need to have boundaries in the workplace? 100% per cent – work is about work. And yet most of us, if we feel seen and heard and we feel connection, we are going to do our best work. And so, you know, for the parents at home of young kids that are having to navigate that juggle, which is huge to know, this is a season of life, and they’re going to change, and we’re going to change, and in the next season, it may look different, but there is definitely a deep compassion that comes from ‘What is this season?’ – owning it and naming it, and then doing your best work within that season of life and work.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Again, I can relate to so much and having an almost nine-year-old at home, that’s definitely the season of life I’m in, and I’m even I’m reflecting as you’re talking and just thinking that even even the seasons themselves will look different for different people, and coming back to your sort of very tailored approach to your coaching work is I might look at someone else who’s in the same season, and they they are doing more than me or less than me, or whatever, and it’s very easy to compare yourself to that, and go, ‘Oh, well, why can they do more than I when our circumstances are the same?’ But it’s just testament to that real, different way that we’re all experiencing this crazy, complicated thing called life.
Kemi Nekvapil: Exactly. And I think as well, we have to be mindful that unless you have a connection with that person and they’re telling you what is happening in their lives, their output doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Their output could be incredibly productive because their marriage is falling apart, you know, and they’re just working all the time because they need to feel a sense of this is something I can control. This is something that is working. So to compare ourselves to things that we actually don’t know what’s going on in the background can be really dangerous. Instagram versus reality.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: It’s got me just thinking again, back to people like myself and other fellow HR practitioners. I imagine there’s a point in people’s careers where you sort of make that shift, or you have that awakening, where you move from waiting for permission to really backing yourself, and that’s quite a big leap to take. Do you have any practical strategies or tips that emerging HR leaders or early HR leaders might be able to apply to help them build that self trust and that sense of I know what I’m doing and I have something to say.
Kemi Nekvapil: I’m always very disappointing at these moments, Tani, because I never have tips, but I’m happy to put some things on the table which people may pick up and it may resonate with them. And I’ll share a little bit, you know, I’ll share a little bit as well, with my journey. So firstly, whenever we expand into anything, it’s always scary. And as you say, there is an element that we have to back ourselves. We have to stop waiting for permission. There are very, very few roles in the world where one is anointed. Otherwise, we have to give ourselves permission to step up into leadership, or to step into the rooms that we feel that we can make a really positive contribution in. Sometimes, for me, if I find myself in a situation where I’m not where I’m double guessing like either there is no one that looks like you that has done this, or there is no one that looks like you that is doing this. I tell myself, you are a black woman born of a particular time with your particular skills. Right now, what is the reason? Step into the reason. Because otherwise, otherwise you could feel like, why am I here? Like, what am I doing this? It feels really scary. So there’s something about choosing the reason and the purpose, and I don’t need to use that all the time. It’s not something that comes up every day, but there are some times whenever I’m stretching and expanding, it’s always a case of, ‘Okay, there is a reason why it’s me, why I have this idea, why I feel I have to speak now.’ And I found myself in rooms where I’ve just thought, ‘I’m the only one in the room. I don’t want to say it. I’m not really sure how it’s going to go about.’ And I look around the room and I’m like, ‘Well, you’re the only, you’re the only one.’ So if you don’t say it, no one else is actually going to understand this idea or your kind of take on what is happening here. It’s always risky to be in a leadership role. It’s always risky to be the first. It’s always risky to back ourselves and say, ‘I know that I can contribute exactly what I have in this role.’ It doesn’t mean that we don’t need upskilling. It doesn’t mean we don’t need trainers or mentors. It doesn’t mean that we don’t need some cheerleaders along the way. But ultimately, as you say, it is us not waiting for permission and just deciding there is a reason why I am here, doing this right now, and I’m going to live into that reason.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Ah, so much goodness in that. And I think that framing around almost thinking, well, if I wasn’t here, my unique perspective is overlooked, you know? And I think there’s something really powerful as a leader, also looking around the room and going, ‘Well, who else’s voice isn’t in this conversation? Who else’s perspective is missing?’, to help us really tap into that diversity of thought.
Kemi Nekvapil: Yeah. And diversity is so important, you know, I see it out in the paddocks, in the field all the time, that the diversity that is needed within nature is what regenerates. You know, that actually we need everyone in some way, as I’m sure some people listening, either have people that have been diagnosed with neurodivergency recently, or they for themselves. And you know that can be such a big, big thing, but I have, you know, a couple of friends in my life who have both been diagnosed with ADHD, and it’s been so interesting how I’ve had to step up and kind of change my own internal narratives around what friendship should be, or one particular friend with ADHD who is never on time. I’m English. That does not work for me most of the time, but the conversation that we’ve had around the diversity in our friendship and how her brain works compared to how my brain works, and then being able to work with that flexibility benefits everyone. I know I’m a better friend. And it’s the same when we find ourselves in a room, we can think, ‘Oh, it’s a bit hard. There’s all these different voices, and people have different opinions and different generations.’ I cannot tell you the amount of people that I have worked with in the different generations, and the less than positive narratives about the different generations in the workplace right now. And every single generation has positives. Every single generation has positives about their work ethic, you know. And I think about some of the younger generations who are basically saying, and I’m sure that you know, for you, within HR and a lot of the HR leaders, you’re working with this generation of people that are saying, ‘My work is not my life.’ But then you’re also the boomers are still in the workplace where they were very much told your work is your life, and you’ll get your watch at the end. And so to balance that, to have those generations in a room of that serious dedication to work ethic and also serious dedication to being a human and putting all of those ingredients together, I think they’re the rooms that we want to be in.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s a really interesting layer onto that as well, in terms of the power dynamics, because oftentimes it is the older generation that’s at the top, so to speak, you know, and they’re setting the tone. And there seems to have been, in my experience, a little bit of resistance to evolving and changing how we do work and how we define success. And, you know, we see that through some of the return to office narrative and various other things, but it’s, how do we, how do we work with our senior most leaders to help them in a way that feels safe for them? Yes, evolve to a new way of working that supports different people of diverse intersectionality?
Kemi Nekvapil: Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s the thing, isn’t it? Is that we sometimes want, we want our relationships with each other, humans to be kind of quick and efficient, you know? And actually it is having individual conversations with these generations, you know, like it’s, it’s actually asking them, what has you feel safe? One of the things that actually Brene said when I was facilitating the work was it is so easy for the older generations to think, well, everything is new. All this tech is coming in. And actually it’s not even about age, actually. Now with AI, it’s actually not about generation. It’s about what your role is and whether you can be replaced, but just within the context of what we’re speaking about. And Renee said, you know, people will often say, No, I’ve just got to throw out everything I know, you know, like, what was the point? I’ve been doing this for 30 years, and I’ve got to throw it all out and learn this new stuff. And Brene would often say, it’s never about throwing everything out. It’s about we need what you have. It’s also, then about adding skills on top of what you already have. Because no one else in this room has 30 years of experience, you know, so it is. It’s that, it’s that honoring of the experience that has been gained. And also, as you said, the safe invitation of and if we add this, then it’s really going to multiply your. Impact and your contribution into the workplace
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Yeah, in those moments where perhaps we are feeling like, ‘Gosh, what’s it all been for? I’ve got to throw everything out and start again.’ That’s really uncomfortable, and I imagine that does throw in a lot of self doubt. Am I good enough? Can I do this? What’s your take on reframing that discomfort as a sign post as opposed to a stop sign?
Kemi Nekvapil: Well, first of all, naming it. It goes back to vulnerability and ownership, and there’s power in just going, ‘I feel like my skills are no longer worthy.” Or let’s go to the younger generation. That sense of, ‘I feel like I’m not listened to because I’m 23.’ The signpost is owning it and naming it. Okay, I feel self doubt. I’m not sure that I’m valued in this workplace, or I’m scared. And for me, because one of my core values is connection, it would be having the conversation with the person within the workplace to just say, ‘This is my concern. This is my fear. I’m worried with all this change that is happening. I don’t see my place. I’m not sure what’s next.’ And people think that if they don’t say it, somehow they’re protected. That has not been my experience. It’s actually naming it and owning it, because then a conversation can take place. ‘Oh, well, look, maybe over here, you’re right, these particular skill sets, or this particular project or program that we were working on is probably not going to be useful in the next 18 months, but this over here, with these skills that you have is exactly what we want. What’s the pathway that’s going to take you there?’
Tani Jacobi CPHR: And how do you see the trait of curiosity coming into this situation? Is there a way to leverage our curiosity to help us through these moments of ‘I don’t know’?
Kemi Nekvapil: Yeah, I mean, curiosity is great. There’s something very isolating about being a know-it-all, you know, and I come from the generation where we would go to dinner parties and someone would say, ‘Oh, what was that album? You know, with that song’, and that conversation could go on for like an hour of people – was it this? No. Was it that? No, it wasn’t. People are trying to sing it now. Now, someone says, ‘What was that song on that album?’ Google, done in 30 seconds. Yes, it’s efficient. But did we learn anything about people’s music tastes? Did we learn about the parties that we actually happen to be at the same place together at the same time and we didn’t know that we were there? Curiosity opens up the world. Like to have the question as well for me, also, as a coach, I’m obsessed with the question more than the answer, that we can actually just go out and ask the question. As I said, I live on a farm now, and I’m trying to learn the bird life, and I’m not googling the birds. I’m just asking the question. I wonder what that is. And every day I’m curious. I wonder what that is. When we’re working with people, when I’m working with my clients, they’ll say something, and I’ll say, ‘Hey, I’m really curious. What did you mean by that?’ When we find ourselves in teams, and someone didn’t do the thing they said they were going to do, or they missed the email, or the presentation was not how we thought, and we can tell them it was wrong, or that’s not what we expected. Or we can say, ‘I’m really curious. What was your thinking around this?’ It takes out any negative charge. It takes out blame. It just says something happened here. I wasn’t expecting this. Tell me what happened here. And there’s a safety that we create within each other. So curiosity can show up in so many different ways, and it really does expand our leadership. And personally, I think it makes us kinder. And who doesn’t want kind leadership around them?
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Absolutely. And in the future of our workplaces with AI and technology and the pace at which that change is happening, you know, the work is still human, right? Yeah, kindness and compassion, yeah, it’s got to exist. We’ve got to change, change the way we think about it, yeah, Kemi, it’s been really wonderful hearing you speak about that experience of I’m stepping into something new, something different, potentially something bigger, and the discomfort that that can come with that if I don’t know all the answers, or I don’t know how to do this, can you share any stories with us around times you’ve supported people through that transition and what’s been particularly helpful for them in navigating it?
Kemi Nekvapil: Yeah, and I can share with you that, you know, I work with so many different people in many different industries. This is not unique to any industry, but it makes me think automatically of somebody that I was working with as a one to one client who worked in medicine, and she was wanting to expand up to being a surgeon, from being a doctor, and it’s a rigorous training. We spent quite a bit of time working together. And for her, it was just kind of how it generally works out traditionally, of how you rostered on and what works and all those things. And she had this internal battle between she actually was looking after an elderly parent who was seriously ill, and she would need to be there as a doctor, but needed to be kind of there caring for her parent, but also had a roster that she had to do as part of her training up to be a surgeon, and she was incredibly overwhelmed. She’s like, ‘I don’t want to get thrown out of the program. I want to be a surgeon, but also I can’t leave my parent.’ And we had this conversation around what was most important to her. Both things were equally important. So that didn’t make it any easier, but it was just her naming that they’re both important. And then I said to her, ‘When you become a surgeon, what would be the conversation that you would have with a junior?’ And she said, ‘I would want them to better look after their parent.’ So then she got from that, that she was going to have a scary conversation, but to have a conversation with the senior surgeon around what she was dealing with in her life, and was there any leeway in how she had been rostered on? And there absolutely was. And what was interesting about it was that the surgeon had said to her, ‘So few people ask, and there’s a lot of time and space for flexibility.’
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Wow, just asking the question makes such a difference. Yeah. Kemi, devastatingly for me, we are approaching the end of our time together, but we do have one last segment that we attach on to all of our episodes, which is to throw your way a bit of a hypothetical scenario and get a read from you on how you might respond. Okay, you up for it?
Kemi Nekvapil: Yeah, I’m ready.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Okay, great. So in this particular scenario, you’re an HR leader, a major restructure of an organisation is about to be announced, and you’ve been part of the planning and the change makes sense to you. The feeling you have is that the rollout, the implementation, is a bit rushed, and the communication has been a bit on the light side. You want to push for a more transparent people first approach. Some of the execs are dismissing it as too emotional, and speaking up feels risky, but staying silent feels wrong. How would you lead through this with integrity and with maintaining your sense of influence?
Kemi Nekvapil: Well, I feel like we’ve circled all the way back round to values. Yeah. You know that leader wants to be able to put their head on their pillow that night and say, Did I lead through my values today? Was it risky? Yes. Do I risk influence? Yes. But did I risk what is important to me? No. And so then that builds confidence, and that builds self trust and self belief. And to be honest, living into our values doesn’t make life easier, it makes it clearer, which means then we know the actions we need to take. So that’s what I would be in that you know, my core values, I’d be tapping into those in that instance, and go, ‘Okay, what is my what is what are my options?’ And for me, cultivation and connection are two of my core values. So I’d want to cultivate those conversations that had time and space and ease. And I’d want to connect with the execs and say, ‘This is why I think this is important. Tell me what is concerning you, you say it’s emotional, but tell me what, what more do you mean about that?’ And then how do we meet in the middle so that when I’m having these conversations, the people that I’m speaking to feel human and they feel heard and they feel seen and they feel valued, and I’d hope that we could come out of that conversation with something that would work.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: Oh, that’s fantastic. And Kemi, I certainly feel seen and heard and valued through this conversation with you. It’s been such a joy to have this chat. Thank you so much for sharing all of your experience and your insights well.
Kemi Nekvapil: Thank you for your wonderful questions, Tani.
Tani Jacobi CPHR: And if you want to hear more from Kemi, make sure you secure your spot for this year’s AHRI National Convention and Exhibition in Sydney, where Kemi will be speaking. You can find all of the details you’ll need in the show notes. Thanks for listening. If you found the insights from this episode valuable, please share it with your network so we can reach more people, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss a future episode. For more useful resources and professional development opportunities, check out the show notes or visit AHRI’s website, ahri.com.au.
Subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can follow the podcast on Spotify, Soundcloud or Apple Podcasts. AHRI members receive exclusive bonus content via the LinkedIn AHRI Lounge.