Susan Lloyd-Hurwitz AM, former CEO at Mirvac, and Ben Morris CAHRI, Mirvac’s Group Head of HR, outline what made their working relationship so effective, and offer advice to HR practitioners looking to earn credibility and influence at the executive level.

What makes a CEO really listen to HR? According to Susan Lloyd-Hurwitz AM, former CEO of Mirvac, it’s all about commercial fluency, courageous truth-telling and a genuine understanding of what drives the business.

“As CEO, everything you say gets noticed – and so do the things you don’t say. You need someone you trust who can give you that nudge and say, ‘Here’s how that landed in the room,’” Lloyd-Hurwitz said in a recent episode of AHRI’s podcast, Let’s Take This Offline.

That candid, real-time feedback is a gift, and it’s often where HR practitioners really demonstrate the value of their varied skill set with the CEO.

“At one point, [when I was the CEO] somebody in the HR senior team suggested it would be time – very nicely put – for me to have a qualitative 360 review done. So I did it, and the feedback showed two of my personality traits were combining in an unhelpful way: I’m an introvert, and I’m ruthlessly efficient. Put those together and I can short-change the social interaction.

“I asked [the HR leader], ‘What is it that I’m doing that lands that way?’ and they gave me great feedback – a real example. About half an hour later, I walked into a room where some people were waiting for me, and as I walked through the door, I said, ‘Right, what are we doing?’ And I thought, ‘Ah, there it is.’ ‘Hello’ would have been a much better way to enter the room.”

In this candid conversation, Lloyd-Hurwitz and Mirvac’s Group Head of HR, Benjamin Morris CAHRI, unpack how HR earns influence at the executive table.

From ‘Mirvacuate’ to ‘Mirvana’

When Lloyd-Hurwitz joined Mirvac in 2012, the business was “opportunity-rich and incredibly difficult”. Employee engagement sat at 37 per cent and the culture wasn’t in a strong place.

“There’s this folklore at Mirvac that there was an analyst who, back around the time I joined, coined the phrase ‘Mirvacuate’ because engagement was so low; it was seen as a bit of a sinking ship,” says Morris.

Over the following years, engagement rose to 90 per cent – a transformation built on disciplined leadership, targeted interventions and a close partnership between HR and the CEO. “After we’d turned it around, someone else said, ‘Oh, ‘Mirvana’ – all my people want to go and work there,’ says Lloyd-Hurwitz. 

“I love that – Mirvacuate to Mirvana,” says Morris. “It’s such a great reminder that with focus and leadership, you can transform even the toughest culture.”

That cultural turnaround began with getting the basics right. 

“Our credibility often turns on doing the fundamentals brilliantly,” he says. “Once you do that, you earn the right to play in the bigger conversations about learning, succession and strategy.”

From there, the focus shifted to aligning HR initiatives with business imperatives. Whether addressing gender pay equity or inclusive leadership, the Mirvac team learned to connect every people initiative to performance, risk or strategy.  It’s not about what HR wants to do, says Morris. It’s about what the business needs.

For Lloyd-Hurwitz, this alignment is what earns HR its seat at the table. 

“Engagement isn’t a fluffy feel-good exercise,” she says. “It’s the single most important predictor of business performance.”

The pair agree that the ability to layer commercial fluency into all of your decision-making is now a baseline expectation for senior HR leaders. 

“Go and learn how the business makes money,” says Morris. “Join the results calls, read the annual report, listen to the analysts’ questions. Be endlessly curious.” 

How can HR practitioners enhance their commercial acumen?

Become the CEO’s wise counsel

Credibility, however, isn’t just about data and strategy. It’s also about trust. HR leaders need to provide “wise counsel” to CEOs, often serving as both truth-teller and cultural interpreter.  

“The CEO role is powerful but lonely,” says Morris. “A trusted HR partner knows when to guide, when to nudge, and when to speak truth to power.”

For Lloyd-Hurwitz, that trust is built on mutual respect and human connection. 

“It’s a privileged relationship,” she says. “The HR leader is often in the room when no one else is. They need to use that privilege sensitively and with great judgment.”

Susan Lloyd-Hurwitz on HR as a training ground for being an effective CEO

Both leaders agree that the next evolution of HR leadership lies in blending commercial mastery with courage and authenticity. 

“Be a commercial leader first, and an HR leader second,” says Morris.

Lloyd-Hurwitz adds a final note of advice for emerging leaders: “Put your hand up before you think you’re ready. Courage and curiosity will take you further than confidence alone.”

Listen to the full episode here for more useful insights from Lloyd-Hurwitz and Morris. Make sure you subscribe so you never miss a future episode.